Author Topic: WEEKLY DISCUSSION TOPIC #4 - The Discussion Of The Showcase Of The Immortals  (Read 1703 times)

GM Corbin

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WEEK 4 - WRESTLEMANIA EDITION

Once again my scheduled idea gets pushed aside for something topical that crops up... This time though it's due to me not realising how close 'Mania was so not planning for it..

Quite simply we're talking anything and everything Wrestlemania... Memories (the good, the bad and the ugly), thoughts, opinions and hopes/predictions for the future of the Greatest Event In Pro Wrestling.

Should the streak have ended? Will anyone ever match it? Is Shawn Michaels the definitive “Mr Wrestlemania”? Does the bodyslam heard around the world stand the test of time and still rate as a defining moment? What will the WWE landscape be like a year from now going into 32? And the big one... What if the first Wrestlemania had flopped?

Let the discussion begin...



BONUS TOPIC – ESPNSS Weekly Discussion HALL OF FAME

For a bit of fun, I'll also allow you each the opportunity to induct anyone you wish into a hypothetical hall of fame.

Tell us who you'd pick and why they deserve the honour of being immortalised.



Don't forget, if you have a topic you'd like to suggest for a future discussion please PM it to me, along with any relevant links (e.g. for news items), with the subject line “Weekly Discussion Topic Suggestion”.
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GM TJ II

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Outside of the stuff that's talked about on that other forum, I'm looking forward to Orton vs Rollins, they've done a great job of making Rollins look good in losses over the last 4 or 5 months though and Orton could use the win. I think that's got the potential to be the match of the night, Rollins isn't going to let Orton dictate the pace of the match (seriously Orton loves those slow methodical matches even as a face) If there's ever a match Rollins busts out his package piledriver, it's this match. First singles mania match.

GM Kirk

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Why is Undertaker still going after the end of the streak?

GM Gravedigger

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Why is Undertaker still going after the end of the streak?

I look at it like guys who retire and come back. Taker did the "honor" by losing last year to Brock, so he passed the proverbial torch already, now he's in his "comeback" phase because he's not quite ready to hang his boots up yet...

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GM Gravedigger

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Outside of the stuff that's talked about on that other forum, I'm looking forward to Orton vs Rollins, they've done a great job of making Rollins look good in losses over the last 4 or 5 months though and Orton could use the win. I think that's got the potential to be the match of the night, Rollins isn't going to let Orton dictate the pace of the match (seriously Orton loves those slow methodical matches even as a face) If there's ever a match Rollins busts out his package piledriver, it's this match. First singles mania match.

Don't think Rollins will be doing anything "package" related at Mania....

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GM Gravedigger

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I'll tackle a few of the questions from Leon now...

I think the bodyslam does hold up. Sure, it may not be the greatest move in wrestling history, but it very well might be the most significant. Wrestlemania 3 was the biggest even of it's time, and still might be the biggest event ever. It was the apex of the 80s, when wrestling was huge... They drew 33 million viewers for a Saturday Night Main Event back then... So yeah, Hogan slamming Andre is still a big deal.

I personally wouldn't have ended the streak. I think it was a record that should have been left standing for someone to go after in the future, if anyone ever works that many Manias again. But at the same time I get why they did it. It's a big deal for Brock to say he's the guy who broke the best record in wrestling. I doubt it is ever matched, just due to the sheer number of matches and years it took to build the streak.

I think HBK can be looked at as Mr. Wrestlemania. From the Ladder Match vs. Razor, to the Iron Man Match with Bret, a significant matches (not his best, but important) with Austin, Cena, and Flair, and great late career matches with Jericho, HHH/Benoit, Angle, and the two Taker matches, especially the first one at 25. I went to 20-30 live, and nothing compared to the crowd atmosphere during that match at 25. The entire crowd was sucked in 100%, watching two all time greats go back and forth and put on a hell of a show. HBK, in terms of quality, to me is Mr. Wrestlemania.

I think 32 is going to be a massive show. It will probably be headlined by a number of the dreaded "part timers", but they are going to Cowboy Stadium.... they can put over 100,000 people in there. The star power will be as big as the stadium. Looks like we're going to get a Brock/Rock rematch from 2002, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Taker/Sting happen as well. I think there's a good chance we'll get Austin in the ring one last time, and I'd see him taking on Cena, plus they'll try to get HBK back once again, probably for a match with Bryan, but maybe Rollins.... They will roll out the red carpet for this one, and it will be massive.

If WM 1 had failed then we might not be talking about the WWE today. Vince took a huge financial risk on the show, and could have been in serious trouble if the show had failed. Maybe WCW would still be alive today as they could have added top WWF talent to their show back then... The world could have gotten lengthy feuds in the mid to late 80s with Flair, Hogan, Savage, Sting, etc... I think Vince would have found a way to continue doing business, but it might have been at a much smaller scale than it was after WM 1.

And I'm on the Brock retaining bandwagon. I think next year's Rumble is the very earliest he should lose, but I'm fine if he has a multi year title reign....

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GM Powers

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I was at WM 15.


GM Franchise

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I went to WrestleMania XXVI.

GM Gravedigger

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I went to WrestleMania XXVI.


Every year XX-XXX... Lot of traveling... And money.

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GM Powers

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But dude, you saw the MIZ retain his title!!  You can't put a price tag on THAT!!


GM Gravedigger

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True dat.....


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Reya Serra

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But dude, you saw the MIZ retain his title!!  You can't put a price tag on THAT!!

The price tag for watching it is $9.99 on the Network.  :P

GM Kirk

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Why is everyone picking Taker to lose in the prediction game? Doesn't take away from Brock's achievement if everyone is capable of beating taker now?

GM Jon

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Why is everyone picking Taker to lose in the prediction game? Doesn't take away from Brock's achievement if everyone is capable of beating taker now?

I think it would be viewed more as Brock broke Taker.

But really, a passing of the proverbial torch to Bray Wyatt makes sense though.

However, I feel Taker wins here.



  


GM Kirk

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He passed the torch last year. I doubt they'd make him do it two years in a row. That would be the end of him and a sad way to bow out.

GM TJ II

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He passed the torch last year. I doubt they'd make him do it two years in a row. That would be the end of him and a sad way to bow out.

HBK lost two manias in a row and bowwed out.

Tritch

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I think Undertaker loses to Bray to pass the creepy gimmick torch, then comes back for his real final match next year in his hometown against Sting and wins that one.

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I thought I wanted Taker to lose to Bray... then as the match went on I began thinking "No... Taker, don't do it! You gotta win!"

I was consumed by my inner kid-fan.

It was a great night to be a wrestling fan, I think.
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GM Kirk [21|May 12:29 AM]:   When trade fever hits, math is the first casualty.

GM Jon

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I thought I wanted Taker to lose to Bray... then as the match went on I began thinking "No... Taker, don't do it! You gotta win!"

I was consumed by my inner kid-fan.

It was a great night to be a wrestling fan, I think.

Couldn't agree more.

One of the best Mania's I've seen in quite some time.



  


GM Gravedigger

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Couldn't agree more.

One of the best Mania's I've seen in quite some time.

Not if you ask old man Powers...

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GM Powers

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My opinion is no less valid than everyone elses.  I didn't like what I saw.  *shrugs*

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Now for my long awaited (haha) critique of Mania.

Tag Match - Not much to complain about here.  It probably should've gone maybe 5 minutes longer, but the right team won, in the right way.

ARMBAR - It's good to see the WWE giving a push to that young upstart Big Show.  That kid has a real future in this biz.  </sarcasm>  Seriously though, Miz/Mizdow were the only people in the match with any sort of real program going.  One costing the other the match should've been the focal point, also with them garnering the win.  Big Show should NOT be winning any matches on 'Big' PPV's in 2015.

IC Match - I hated this match.  The WWE has created their "multi-man ladder match formula", and it sucks.  To start, each individual must dive out onto the group at ringside, one at a time.  Then, 3-4 guys must lay around on the floor at all times, alternating with the 2-3 guys in the ring who are doing spots.  Zero psychology.  Just a list of spots, hindered by the WWE not allowing the type of big spots that indy feds would allow. 

And don't get me started on that finish.  Let me get this straight....2 guys, who are NOT known for headbutting, get into a headbutt battle on top of the ladder?  We're supposed to buy that these guys are smashing their heads together as hard as possible a dozen or so times, and their both okay?  It'd be different if it were tied into something.  Like the old "Samoans have hard heads" trope.  If it were Samu and Fatu doing that spot, I'd be okay.  Ziggler and Bryan?  Fucking dumb.

Orton/Rollins - Based on what happened later in the night, it made sense to have Orton win here, as much as I may disagree with it.  It is likely my Orton bias (ironic due to him being on my FWL team) but I can't stand his matches since he became 'The Viper'.  They are just sooooooo  sssssssssllllllllllllllllloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww.  I mean, it's Mania Randy, I shouldn't have time to go make a sandwich in between your moves.  The curb stomp into RKO was nice though.

Sting/HHH - Oh where do I begin with this clusterfuck? 
~Based on his special entrance, Sting is apparently Asian and none of us knew.
~The Terminator tie in was cringeworthy in its lameness.  My wife turned to me and said "Really?" before leaving the room to do anything else.  Also, it made no sense.  First, HHH is getting ready to lead an army of Terminators into battle.  Then he is handed a bunch of Terminator heads to pose with.  Is he with them, or against them?  INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!
~The build made no sense.  HHH = Heel in the Authority.  Sting = Vigilante face against Authority.  But then, HHH = WWE and Sting = WCW (and in WWE canon WWE ALWAYS = Face and WCW ALWAYS = Heel).  So the heel is representing the face side, and the face is representing the heel side.  Oooookay.
~Unless he has REALLY declined since his last TNA dates, Sting could still go.  There was no need for such a shitfest schmozz of a match, especially with all the time in the world to prepare.
~Speaking of the schmozz.....okay, I can buy DX helping HHH (even though the heel/face dynamic is still kinda skewed, but it's still believable), but there is absolutely NO WAY the nWo should be helping Sting.  I mean, seriously.  What.  The.  Fuck.  The entire crow Sting character developed from the need to stop the 3 guys that are helping him!! 
~Why in the fuck were Hall/Nash on opposite sides from Waltman/HBK/HHH.  The Kliq is a part of kayfabe now.  The 5 of them were JUST buddy buddy at the HOF ceremony less than 24 hours ago.  Zero sense.
~Then the heel (representing the face team) won over the dastardly face (representing the heel team).  The heel/face then turned face/face by shaking the face/heel's hand, making him a face/face too.  I guess.

- Has a musical performance ever gone over well at a wrestling show?  Waste of time and money.

Divas Tag - It was okay for what it was.  A little sloppy at times, but what can ya do when the Bellas are in there.  No real complaints.

US Title - Rusev's tank entrace was the BEST specialty entrance they have ever done.  Made sense in the storyline, and was badass as fuck.  As for the match, their match from Fastlane was far superior.  Also, in an era where Wrestlemania has everyone kicking out of everyones finishers, Rusev was foiled by 1 AA?  And....are they seriously teasing a Rusev/Lana breakup?  For fucks sake, she is an integral part of his act!!  One last question....with Lesnar not retaining, there was no reason to put the US belt on Cena.  The wrong person won here, again.

Authority/Rock/Rousey segment - Was fun, but needed to be about 5 minutes shorter.  It meandered at times, and when they were running so short on time that they scrapped a Wyatt/UT vignette, someone should've told them to tighten their shit up.

Wyatt/UT - Scarecrow entrance was lame.  Taker's entrance in the daylight was lame (not much they could do there though).  The match was perfectally acceptable, but again the wrong person won.  Taker gains nothing from the win, and it continues the freefall that Wyatt has been on since pre-Mania 30.  He's lost so much in the past year, a win here would've provided him with a ton of material to work with, plus a signature win to hang his hat on.

WWE Title - I have nothing bad to say about this match.  They booked it perfectly.  The rub from defeating Brock was not lost at all, Reigns got to look strong, and they avoided the meltdown that would've occured had Reigns won.  There could not have been a better result than that. 

And now you see why I hated this years show.  So many people going over that didn't need it (Show/Orton/HHH/Cena/UT) pushing down those that needed a big WM win (Miz, Sandow, Rollins' 1st match, Rusev, Wyatt), + bad to middle of the road matches = bad show.


GM Jon

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Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Mine is no more right than Talons or Powers ... and well... no it's more right than TJ's... but yeah...



  


GM Gravedigger

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I'm just joking, Powers. You can like or dislike whatever you want.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 07:59:38 PM by GM Gravedigger »

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Talon

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Except for a great mania you can not dislike that.
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GM Kirk [21|May 12:29 AM]:   When trade fever hits, math is the first casualty.

GM Powers

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I know bro, I wasn't offended or anything.